The cognitive scientist helping kids persist through challenges
Julia Leonard is uncovering what motivates children to put in the effort to learn
Julia Leonard is an assistant professor of psychology at Yale University. Julia is discovering the ways in which adults can effectively encourage children to persist and problem-solve on their own. Annie Brookman-Byrne talks with Julia about the origins of her curiosity around motivation, the demotivating effect of completing tasks for children, and changing incentive structures in schools.
Annie Brookman-Byrne: What are you trying to understand about children’s motivation and effort?
Julia Leonard: Pursuing long-term goals–like graduating from college, learning to play piano, or making strong friendships–requires sustained effort. Adults try to raise children to persist in the face of challenges, but motivating children to work hard is difficult when it takes a long time to see their efforts pay off. Moreover, children cannot and should not work hard at everything all the time. I research how young children learn to allocate effort and what factors affect their persistence. I want to know how we can create a world in which children have the agency and opportunity to reach their goals, whatever they may be!
ABB: What drew you to study effort and motivation in learning?
JL: I have always been curious about why my sister and I differ so much in our motivation. Throughout my childhood, I had many interests – science, bugs, painting, Japanese language and culture, figure-skating, and more. But ever since I can remember, my sister has had a singular focus – theater. She would rarely elect to take part in anything else. No sports, no science, especially no math (“I can’t do math” was a common refrain). That was a bummer to me, the younger sister who wanted to do all those things with her big sister (on the bright side, I enjoyed being in many of my sister’s plays as a child!).
This experience led me to ask some fundamental questions. Why didn’t she want to try some of the things I loved? I became curious about what predispositions and experiences shaped her interests, her skills, and her beliefs about what she was capable of at such a young age. Where do self-limiting beliefs come from, and what environments promote agency in children?
ABB: What have you discovered in your research?
JL: I have found that children learn how hard to try from watching and listening to the adults around them. For example, young children try harder when they hear praise (specifically praise about effort), when they watch adults’ efforts that lead to success, and when adults highlight children’s improvement. Adult behavior can therefore be an effective point of intervention for fostering children’s persistence. We can let children watch our struggles lead to success. We can applaud children’s improvement. And we can get out of the way and let children try to solve problems on their own.
“I have found that children learn how hard to try from watching and listening to the adults around them.”
At the same time, circumstances outside the individual, including social and economic factors, can negatively impact children’s motivation and cognition. For example, if a parent repeatedly fails to find a job because of systemic factors like racism or lack of opportunity, their children may learn that effort can be futile. If we want to teach children to persist through challenges or help them thrive in a changing world, it is our job to try to make the world more equitable and just.
ABB: Has your research given you answers to your questions about the differences between you and your sister?
JL: I have some theories, although they are not specifically tied to my research. Quite recently, my sister discovered that she has dyscalculia, which makes math incredibly hard. Because her dyscalculia was not diagnosed at a young age, she experienced a lot of early difficulty with math that led her to detest it and conclude that she was “not a math person.” If she had been diagnosed earlier and put in a supportive environment tailored to her diagnosis, I think she would have developed more efficacy, and even enjoyment, in math. These experiences may have caused my sister to search for something in which she could find pride and joy – that ended up being theater.
In some ways, my sister is a paragon of grit. After first seeing a production of Annie at age 5, she declared that she, too, was going to perform on Broadway one day. And guess what, she did go to Broadway. She worked incredibly hard to reach her long-term goal of making it in theater. But this narrow focus came at a cost. She didn’t develop broad self-efficacy in her ability to learn certain things, like science and math. To this day, my incredibly intelligent and accomplished sister gets anxious when I talk to her about my work because it is in the domain of science. To distract her from thoughts of self-doubt, I try to be playful when I talk to her about my research. I’ve even acted out some of my studies as a nod to all the theater training I received from my sister.
In the end, my sister has taught me to be accepting of a wide range of skills and abilities. I used to think that being a “good daughter” meant getting all A’s, being good at sports, and just generally winning. My sister has taught me that this perspective is far too narrow. We also want children to find their passion, to fall in love with something, and to spread that joy to others.
“We also want children to find their passion, to fall in love with something, and to spread that joy to others.”
ABB: Has working on these questions affected your teaching?
JL: One finding has impacted me more than any other: When parents take over, children persist less. In one study, parents who took over and completed a puzzle for their child rated their child as less persistent. In a follow-up study, we found evidence that taking over and completing a puzzle for children causes them to persist less even on a second, different task.
As a professor, I am often faced with the same choice as the parents in my studies – should I let my students struggle on their own, or would it be better if I performed the task for them? After recognizing that taking over is demotivating, I have tried to step back more and let my students work independently. However, I find this genuinely hard to do! My students remind me that I need to let them take the lead, saying, “You’re taking over!” every time I slip up (note to self: In the future, avoid studying something as “meta” as this!).
However, my experience as a teacher/mentor makes me interested in why people take over, and importantly, how to help parents (and professors) step back. We have found that simply explaining to parents how much children can learn by doing things on their own helps them refrain from interfering. Many parents also find it emotionally difficult to watch their child struggle. I, too, feel a pang in my chest when I see my students struggle. Thus, we are also exploring whether parents who experience more physiological stress when they see their child trying to complete challenging tasks are more likely to take over.
“When parents take over, children persist less.”
ABB: What ideas are you pursuing next?
JL: I want to create incentive structures in schools that motivate children to learn. We continue to give extrinsic rewards – grades – for children’s performance, despite having known for decades that these types of rewards reduce intrinsic motivation. We find that by the time children set foot in the classroom, at 4 or 5 years of age, they find rewards for performance demotivating, even when adults praise their hard work.
If we want children to persist in the process of learning, we need to do better than merely grading performance at school. However, it is not easy or advisable to grade effort – effort can sometimes be hidden, it looks different in different people, and we certainly don’t want to incentivize inefficiency when a task could be completed quickly. In my lab, we are exploring novel ways of building incentive structures that not only motivate children to learn, but also help them enjoy the process along the way.
Footnotes
Julia Leonard is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Psychology at Yale. She received her BA in Neuroscience and Behavior from Wesleyan University, earned a PhD in Cognitive Science from MIT, and completed a MindCore-funded postdoctoral fellowship at the University of Pennsylvania. Julia wants to understand the factors that support children’s approach to learning as well as their capacity to learn. She addresses these questions with the tools of cognitive science, developmental psychology, and neuroscience, with a focus on early childhood and educational implications.
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